Readers " Gambling " And " Canobus »Name Atom RPG Trudograd the best role -playing game last year on Ludi Awards , And we could not help but talk to Alexander Komnian , co -founder Atom Team and the leading game designer Atom RPG and the "Slutgrad" (at the same time, other interviews will be released soon!).
We talked about both Atom RPG and Trudograd, and about what is happening in the game industry and NFT, indie developers and the desire for independence, state sponsoring games and just favorite projects-classic and modern. In addition, Alexander will give several important tips to beginner developers!
Congratulations on the victory in the nomination "RPG year". In 2021 there were many role -playing and generally strong games. What do you think, why in this nomination the audience has chosen you?
It's hard to say. Firstly, it is worth recalling that last year on Ludi Awards We took the prize with the "Tlaw" Our game of the year ". This year, I think, by our game of the year will become Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. I voted for them. And given that there would be too much to take them “RPG of the year”, the players decided to share in fairness. That's why we won. And they made a good game, it seems to me.
In the same category there was Black Book, And this is an amazing thing. I am in great delight. But players probably know better.
Do you associate this with the fact that our players have long dreamed of "Russian Fallout"?
This question is quite provocative for me. They always ask me: “And what did you think about when they created Russian Fallout?". I always answer: "We have never done Russian Fallout".
We are far from being our answer to something. We did atom rpg. Yes, we peeped. But copyright ideas in Atom RPG and "Shpegrad" quite a lot and without it. We looked not only at Fallout, but also at Arcanum , on Baldur’s Gate , for a whole bunch of games.
Perhaps the community really sees in us our answer to something. But we hope, there is more author’s project than tracing paper or copy. But, on the other hand, if some of the players think that we are Russian Fallout, why not? If they like the game itself, it doesn't get worse from this, right?
It can be seen where the inspiration comes from, but this is the evolution of ideas. Still Fallout-the game of the 90s ..
I can say that Atom RPG is approximately from the same years according to its concept. In our main team, which first worked on the “atom”, and then on “Shpegrad”, 11 people. And we are all about the same age, we all grew up on the same games. And it so happened that for almost all the main genre – RPG.
And when you have a computer at the age of 8-9, what do you see? See " Gothic ", You see Fallout, then you see the next parts ..
And when you start working in Gamdev, you ask yourself: “That I would like to surpass the good and bright from the memories?". And you answer: "We will do better than Arcanum and Baldur’s Gate".
It is unlikely that we managed to do better. But at least it’s good to do it with us. And repeat to some extent the success of such great studios as Black Isle Studio And Troika Games – This is really success. At least for a small, unknown studio from the CIS.
How much it helped the community when working on "Tuproke"? Whether players influenced certain solutions, helped in some ways?
In our case, the community always works. Since the time of "Atoma" we have always worked closely with the community. They introduced some ideas, often renewed the game, changed quests. The same thing with "Tuproke". Players took part quite actively and helped.
It is quite difficult to highlight specific things, but recently we got a card " Bombagan ". And mostly the community has sold this independent version from us. We made it simply because we wanted our card game. And not collectible, it is not Gwint or Hearthstone. It's just a card game like a “fool”, but with a little more complex rules.
And the community literally took us on boarding, demanding that we release the game separately. We released it. And, to our surprise, it is quite popular. Of course, she will bring us anything, because she is absolutely free, there is no donat and all that. Just a card game. But people play. So, probably, we are doing something right.
Planning to somehow develop a "bombagan"?
It is planned to develop, of course. But you need to understand in which direction. And everything rests on the budget. Make it paid or introduce donates, we do not want to. But support is needed to support, and this is a salary, time. Therefore, we are in the fork. On the one hand, we initially wanted to have no excesses with a donation, but better without donates at all, and on the other hand, to support the team, it may have to come up with something like that.
But so far we are just collecting feedback, preparing a patch. Because there are some problems, there are some difficulties with a balance. Therefore, while we think more about the technical part. But you will also have to think about the development in due time.
How 2021 went to you? And how did the development of "Tuprograd" in the context of a pandemic went?
On the one hand, we were in some safety, since we began to work remotely even before it became mainstream. Our studio appeared: we are just people from different ends of the CIS, which have united for collaboration ..
But there were also difficulties, since some participants in our team were ill with Covid. I including. And it has its effect. Because when some people fall out of development by 2-3 weeks, this affects the entire team. In addition, fatigue also accumulates, some graters begin with each other. Plus a strange situation in the world.
But I believe that we passed quite well 2021. In the end, we released the game of the release, albeit with some delay. We are lucky that everything is not bad.
“Trudograd” was originally planned as an addition to the original “atom” ..
It was planned as a small addition for 5-6 hours. But when we began to work on the "workgrad", we realized that it was a good platform to work out different ideas and technologies. And we have grown very strongly, level design, sounds … We have worked on all aspects very thoroughly.
Of course, some changes have come with a rethinking of the format of ". We lost free movement on a global card, as was the case in the "atom". Not all players liked it. We took a large layer, important for the players part. They have lost the opportunity to engage in such a study as before. But the content has become much more concentrated. And this also gave its effect.
And I think that in the future, no matter what game we work on, and we have some ideas, we will adhere to a similar concept. We will probably have a large global map, which can be explored, but there will be similar areas within the city, and there will be linear movement from the area to the area.
Is it planned to expand "laborograd" by plot additions? Or make it possible to go beyond the current world?
Good question. We continue to release content. For example, there will be a "its angle" ..
The first game had its own base, where it was necessary to spend a bunch of rubles. Something similar?
In "Tuprograd" it will be tougher. I have been working on this location for a very long time. It turned out to be pretty cool. There you can even furnish everything to your taste, buy some kind of visual.
Will there be any additional storyline connected with this?
We think about it. And we have some steps taken in this direction. We came up with the concept of our own base of the player. It will be your own house with a site. In a city with multi-storey construction, we will find a one-story house that will need to be improved and protected, because there are people who do not like it when someone lives better than they.
We also prepare the content update in which the next bunker will appear. Because the players talked about this to us. That compared to the “atom” in “Shpegrad” there are quite few places where it would be possible to reveal the pre-war history of the world, to face some secrets. We listen to our community, and a similar location will appear, but there will be no details about it.
And since we, since the development of the "Tlaw" have left several locations that we did not use. These are very small locations, dungeons … Rather, even the basements, and something similar. And we also want to fill them out. And with the nearest content update, we want to give them to the players.
These will be locations or some additional quests for players?
Yes. We will not add precisely plot tasks, because according to the plot we told everything that we wanted. But expanding the ENT and additional tasks are worth further. And after the current update, we will think in which direction to develop further. Because we have a mobile and console version of "Tuprograde" ahead of us. And you also need to start working on them more actively.
There are indicative dates when it can be?
I would say that this is 2022. But until June, most likely, you should not wait for the news. The last time we released the “atom”, we got a large scatter: first we released the mobile version, then Switch, and relatively recently, a few months ago, we released both Xbox and PlayStation. Now we want to somehow approach this more concentrated, but it will take more time.
Do you plan to engage in the next "atom"?
There are ideas. We have accumulated great fatigue from the "atom", and we thought that we should try to make a game about something else. It will also be RPG. Since we cope well with RPG, we must probably continue.
There are exclusively ideas, and ideas are quite different. We have many cities that we stated in Atom and Tuprograde and which so far are at the level of Laura. We have large plots of the Soviet Union. What happened in Siberia, in the Far East? Where is Moscow in general? These are things. There are a lot of thoughts, but it’s too early to talk about it.
And purely thematically, if the first game was in the steppe, the second game is in the snow -tied workgrade, where the third game would be?
It seems to me that the answer suggests itself. This must probably be a desert part of the country. And even if the action takes place in the desert, then maybe earlier there was, for example, Baikal in place of the desert. Given that there was a nuclear war, the planet could change quite strongly. But these are just thoughts out loud. And how it will actually be, so far it is too early.
Is the final of the plot of "Atom" is known? Laborograd ended with open climax, but is it known how it will end at all? You planned it?
We planned, but plans may change. And here the question is not even what ending we came up with, but what ending to consider the true? And is it necessary to consider any ending to the true? We try to proceed from the fact that each ending in one way or another has the right to exist. Therefore, let's see what will happen next.
If you do some new RPG, not an atom, whatever the game? And in which setting: fantasy, futurism or something else?
I would say that our teams are very different about this about this. Of course, make fairytresses, magic and all that we will not. But to come up and realize a dark, complex world, where, perhaps, there will be terrible magic, damned gods, leaked people, and all this is close to the Middle Ages … It may well be well. Maybe something else.
We even differ in our opinions about whether it is worth doing 3D isometry, as in “atom” and “workgrad”, or to make with a third party look. Perhaps it is worth inventing a mode in which the species switches at the request of the player. But so far there is no general concept of what we would like to do.
Whether options are considered like Xcom 2? Tactical games?
I would not say that we are considering tactical games as an example, but we consider the opportunity to quite process the fighting. Initially, when we made an “atom”, we made it as simple as possible. And so she remained in the "Shpegrad". Of course, there are a lot of bells and whistles. But we will do something with her. But I doubt that I, as a game designer, will actively try to copy from Xcom Or someone else.
And when it comes not about the party, but simply a classic RPG, you need to carefully approach tactical elements. And therefore, we are waiting for a lot of work in this direction.
How important is the combat system in RPG? For example, in Disco Elysium there are almost no battles, mainly dialogs … And you would have taken up such a game, if such an opportunity?
In my opinion, Disco Elysium -This is a good game, but this is a game-nondes. Suppose, recently, after us literally, I came out Gamedec. I personally liked her more than Disco Elysium. And the mechanics are almost exactly the same: no fights, only dialogs. But she did not attract any attention of the community. She received awards, but she is not interesting to players.
Therefore, it seems to me that to translate everything into dialogs … for someone it is cool and interesting. But if we are talking about stable interest, it is unlikely that it is possible for such a plan of games. Because not everyone loves to read.
It worked in Disco Elysium. There are also large dialogs, plus its ENT, which in some places is quite complicated for perception. But the guys are great. They were lucky. The game is good, plus a little luck, plus a little attention. Here is the result. In their case it worked. And in the case of Gamedec did not work.
At the same time, the development of Disco Elysium It went quite hard.
I would say that in principle it is hard to develop games. Especially when no one knows you when you are indie. Indie has no great respect, unfortunately. And it’s clear why. Когда одни инди делают RPG на 60 часов, другие инди выпускают какие-то поделки и пытаются продать их по той же стоимости. Naturally, it is difficult to shove all this to find worthy projects, which are actually quite a lot.
I communicate with a large number of even smaller ones than Atom Team, and a large number of players, when the games of these guys find, are surprised: “What, it was possible? Cool game, but no one knows about her!"
In your opinion, after the release of many disappointing AAA releases The attitude to indie will change?
No, it will not change. Somehow I talked with friends, and one gave a cool example. That dividing into development categories is like feudal classes.
If you are commoner, then even if you are the best of commoners, you are still a commoner. They will pay attention to you, yes, but no more than on a stone on the road. But if you are the worst nobleman, then you are a cattle, but still a nobleman is 33 heads higher.
And with Indi and AAA or those who have money, this, unfortunately, works just like that.
You will not say that OWLCAT (developers Pathfinder: Kingmaker And Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous– approx. Ed.), for example, is indie?
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
"Indie" is a rather stretched concept.
In general, indie is about independence. From the publisher and those who dictate the rules of the game.
We, I think, are the flesh from the flesh of indie. Because we still do not have a publisher. The only ones who dictate the rules of the game are our players. We listen to them, we pray on them. We are as much as possible and always by. Because we believe that the reputation in this case plays a large role. But I understand perfectly well that if tomorrow a large studio decides to do something similar to our game, it will have more attention, including from the press. After all, you in the media, too, do not always pay attention to indie developers.
If the game is large, they are invested in marketing. At least the gaming media informs. And this is a very thin line. On the one hand, you want to be an indie developer and do not go to someone to bow. But you also want it too. You want to continue to deal with your games, but you need money to deal with them. We found a solution.
Unfortunately, many find such a solution to go to publishers. And well, if they were lucky, and the publisher is good TinyBuild. But there are other types of publishers, unfortunately.
Have you received proposals from publishers?
Proposals have received, but we refuse them. Simply because our own independence is now much more important to us than some benefits that can fall on us.
This is generally a pretty interesting thing. When we started to make an “atom”, we did not look for the publisher, but we monitored the market. And all the publishers to whom we addressed and offered to look at the game, told us: “You will die, we will meet you later on the heating main, see you exactly there”. But as soon as the Atom went into early access, the opinion began to change. And then he went out Gamblii sister sites into the release and showed himself well.
At the stage of preparation for “Slagrad” we already had a large number of proposals, and from the same people who talked about the heating main. And it's funny, to be honest. Yes, and not funny too.
For the publisher, these are risks, take off or not take off.
But work with the publisher is also a big risk. After all, the publisher can give you both money and resources, people to find and all other. But at the same time, it seems to me that almost any publisher, investing money, will look at you very carefully, with squint. If you try to come up with something that was not in the original plan, it turns out that the chain is actually not as long as you thought.
But I hope this does not concern all publishers. Because I have many familiar indie developers who work with publishers. They do not receive any fabulous money, they simply have the opportunity to do what they initially agreed. And so far it looks good for them. Although there were cases when it looked very bad.
When developing a "workshop" whether there was any mechanics or a feature that was cut out? And you regret that she did not fall into the final release?
There were many ideas, including those worked out to the state of the concept. Something remained a concept, something even began to be realized, but did not bring to mind. Personally, I liked the processing of stealth, because we planned to do something similar to what eventually appeared in Desperados, For example.
We also have a walkie -talkie in the "Tuple", and interaction with the walkie -talkie occurs exclusively through dialogs. But there was a big idea to add an element of radio games: ciphers, interception of messages, and for the player to independently decrypt. But we decided that it is not worth it to complicate. So now there is no this mechanics, but in the future, perhaps it will appear.
How a foreign audience perceived the "atom" and "Trudograd"? How foreign players perceived, who are not so close to our culture?
Opinions are completely different. From complete misunderstanding, despite our adaptation, so that there is no abuse between cultures at all. But in general, it is quite interesting for players from abroad to perceive our reading of an alternative story.
At the same time, there are opinions from the most stalking to non -human analysis that Atom RPG is a product comparable to the works of Dostoevsky. That this is the voice of a generation. In general, there was a lot of interesting things about this. But in general, players like. At the same time, I would not say that this game is so much aimed at Russia and the CIS.
But in the "atom" the bulk of the references – to our films and culture. Was it difficult for foreigners to understand her?
It seems to me that everyone understood what he wanted. For some, the Soviet Union is just a decoration. Someone tried to understand what the author wants to say.Another thing is that the author did not want to say anything. The author wanted to tell his story without an attempt to influence people. We did not promote Russian -speaking culture, we just did what we liked.
How do you feel about NFT, blockchain and tokens? How appropriate it is in games?
We discussed about this inside the studio – in the context of how it affects the market and further development of games. And the opinions were divided. I myself believe that regardless of whether the NFT man will be in the whole game or not, if you continue to make good classic games, you will find your corner. Let it be dark and even wet, but there will be people who will play and you are interested in you.
Some in the studio believe that this is the future. And you need to fit into the story with NFT and blockchain. But practice shows: the creators ** S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 ** this was voiced – they were blown up, ** team17 ** this voiced it – they were also spilled … But I understand that this small outlet of Overton will once become a large window through which this thing will pour and you will never hide from this. And this will become a reality. Let not this year, but in a year or two.
I relate to this neutral. But I want to remember this. There is such a MMO RPG, called Entropia Universe. And the objects existing in the game were sold for real money. And this game is 15 years old, probably.
Therefore, here, perhaps, such a story is that while people stand on the walls of the castles and shout that the enemies came up, the enemies have actually for a long time in the castle. Just few people know about it and remember.
How do you like the idea that a player can earn money in the game? And what are you see in this underwater stones?
For me personally, the main pitfall is that the games are made for entertainment. I played all the time World of Warcraft. And I played it, because the world was interesting, it was interesting to communicate with people. But at the same time, I saw that many people have bots who just minute the local currency, and then they sell it. Then it was a conscious choice of people, they chose such a path to enrichment, this is their business, why not?
But if now the story of the cryptocurrency inside the games will become widespread, it seems to me that it will be a strong bustard. If people go into the game to just have fun, you do not need to force them to work. I still played in Star Wars: The Old Republic, And I left her when daily and weekly quests appeared there. Because I play for the sake of interest, and not to work in it.
It seems to me that such an attitude is when the more you play and the more you do some primitive actions, the more you get cryptocurrencies … It seems to me that the cryptocurrency is unlikely to be built into the game like “ Witcher ".
We need a multiplayer game.
Exactly. And multiplayer games are not made for interest, they are created to make a profit. They almost always have scarce mechanics. They may look as beautiful as possible, but the rehenticity of the gameplay there is simply incredible. And Korean Grindilka from the 2000s will pay when they see how many people need to be done to get half-dollar. Therefore, I believe that the money in this case is evil in itself. And there will definitely be nothing good from it. Games for entertainment!
Before everyone was worried about DLC. Then microtransactions appeared. Now – metavselnaya and everything else … and many worry that the game itself will disappear.
In this sense, indie will remain. Because we are unlikely to have money to introduce such things into games, but at the same time we will have stories that we want to tell. We will have fresh ideas that we want to show the players. But play in us or choose the next free action game with Donat and NFT, this is already a question for players. If they choose this and choose further, then the indie games will gradually die out. But who will be to blame for this? Certainly not indie developers.
The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante
What games in 2021 liked the most?
I'm not at all sure that in 2021 I played games … I can say that I played in The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante. Moreover, the most interesting thing is that it was developed by the guys from Tomsk, where am I myself. An ordinary small indie studio that made a very cool text game. I remember her very hard.
Black Book?
Yes, but I played it this year.
What I liked?
Very cool stories and approach to the game process. It is difficult to highlight one moment. I have long noticed that if games come out on the territory of the CIS, they are either good from all sides, even if these are not great games, or this is a fierce failure and trash. Games that have one amazing one, and the rest is bad, I can't remember. And Black Book is a strong, cool game, which is good from all sides, in my opinion.
Black Book
How hard it would be to domestic developers, even with the support of the state investing in patriotic projects, to make a game in the Slavic setting to become popular abroad?
I'm not sure it's hard. Because the players see fictional universes daily, and many universes are so well worked out that there is their high -quality ENT, their characters, their unique names … And the players perceive them normally.
Then why would they feel bad to perceive a real culture? It seems to me that if the game is good, it is not so important in which setting it is done.
Will we be able to make such a big game with the current state of the industry in the country? Even if not the level of "witcher 3".
Depending on who is the question. For example, Mundfish does Atomic Heart. And I really hope that they will succeed. And of course they are also written by Russian Bioshock … In general, the question is in the budgets. Because there are talented people, it's true.
For a high -quality game, first of all, a quality idea is needed. And people who can come up with ideas are quite a lot of the same indie developers. The same Atom RPG – when it started, even before me, he was another game. I don’t even remember what the plot was there, but some kind of delusional. If such a plot went into the release, we would immediately be ranked to the list of games like " The revenge of the boxer". Everyone knows about her, but keep it away. As a result, we found scriptwriters who coped with their work beyond praise.
There are shots. And obviously now you can gain people to make a high -quality game, but there is a issue of financing. And it seems to me that the studios, if they want to promote some kind of idea … Although it seems to me that promoting ideas through games is a very disgusting thing. Tell your story and they will hear you if it is good. And if you are trying to introduce some kind of propaganda, even your personal one, you probably will fail. Although an example Call of Duty shows … in general, this is what he shows.
Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War
Making games so that they are simply interesting, you will receive enough budget to advance culture. Culture, not the idea. And it seems to me that this is a natural path. And to collect some construct for the task: here, we urgently need the ministry for games, we will collect the developers and give them money to make something-this is another story about Film Film.
I recently called me from one newspaper that I think about this, and I began to find out what projects won. And I found out that some projects won, they have names, but there is no name of the developer. They are not looking for in any way on the Internet. That is, some projects received money from the state on completely incomprehensible conditions to promote patriotism. But where are these games? Where is this money?
Yes, and promote patriotism … If this will happen on a state scale, it seems to me that it will not end in anything good. Now, if the state found studios who do good projects and want to tell their stories ..
For example, there is such a strategy Syrian Warfare, made by Russian developers. I did not play it, saw the videos, and it looks pretty good. Now, if such guys received grants and resources, then why not. And if “well, get gather, well, what will we give you money now, well, do it!" – probably, nothing good will work out.
That is, the idea of a movie fund applies to games would suit the country in terms of attracting people's attention to the industry?
No, it seems to me, on the contrary, I wouldn't fit. I think we watched the impressions Eugene Badcomedian on many films sponsored by the Film Foundation. Unfortunately, they come to him not because these are amazing films. And where is the guarantee that there will be no one with games?
Because to collect a project that will look like a game is quite simple. Here you have Asset Store, here is unreal, here are five people who work for "doshiraki". And now you have collected something that looks good, but it will not play at all. You, as a developer, need to believe in what you are doing. Otherwise, no one will believe in the game. You need to promote the game, you need to work with the community and invest in advertising if they are. But it seems to me that it will hardly be feasible.
If in reality this story with the development of the state’s money will work, then it will be from the category: we did it, something crooked and oblique, now we will make it crooked and oblique to put all computers in schools and universities, and now, children , write 30-page essays on what you learned from this game.
Do you miss the old domestic Gamdev? Early 2010s or even zero?
I'm not sure that I can recall many Russian games of those times. " Space rangers", Ex Machina, No doubt. If you look at the list, then yes, I remember that, I played it, this went. But to be remembered directly … I remember the games more until this moment, when " Vananers»I went out. Of those times.
And from the time that the playworm is called the Golden Age of the Russian Gamedev, from 2007 to 2009 .. Lada Racing Club Not the same time, by chance? 2006. Since then, our answers have come to everything, and this is considered the golden age of the Russian Gamdev. If this is the Golden Age, then I do not want to have anything in common with such a gamed.
On the one hand, cool projects came out. On the other hand, there were very disgusting games. And it is difficult to choose from all this diversity what I would be guaranteed to like. I liked it then Half-Life, Awesome game, I recommend it to everyone, I played for a long time on the network, Quake III Arena, Command & Conquer: Generals Around the same time, I went out, in ** red alert 2 ** we still played on the network in computer clubs then … " Heroes 3".
And when you remember about those times, few Russian games come to mind, unfortunately.
What was the hardest in the development of "atom" and "workshop"? Maybe some point that made me rack your head.
There was no right moment in the development process, but it was difficult to stop. I always want to do more and better. And this is the hardest – to stop yourself, to make you do anything else, not to invent anything new, not to enter.
In general, therefore, we have a "laborograd" and has grown. We did not do a lot and did not say in the "atom". And then they began to make “Trudograd” and stuff there those ideas that were not included in the “atom”, because we forced ourselves to stop.
And then I had to force myself to stop at the "Tuprogra". We would still have a display of and added-added, they would do it. And it would not end in anything good. We already put off the game twice. Just because there are a dozen features and a mechanic that needs to be brought to mind, since we added them. So stop on time is the hardest.
What useful lessons were extracted from the development of "atoms"? And what tips would you give to beginner developers, taking into account your experience?
I would say there are three tips.
First. Do not make a game of dreams of the first. You will not be able to stop, but you can’t do it as high quality as you want,. It will eat you. And in the end, this will lead to the fact that you will block. Or even worse: release as it is, hear not quite positive reviews and stop. Or continue, but already without a former light.
Second – stop yourself in time. No need to make a game in which there will be amazing graphics, and the music will be a squeak from the system. Choose for yourself the level of quality that you can pull and try to do everything so that all aspects of the game correspond to this level.
And the third – listen to the community. Because players will always tell you cool ideas!
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